When did "The City of Lost Children" project originate, and where did it come from?

Caro : It was an old dream for us, for 14 years we wanted to do it. We conceived of it well before "Delicatessen." Of course, since then, there has been a lot of work rewriting. At the start, we wanted to tell the story of a little girl and of a big guy...the fog, the port, the foghorns of the boats, all the surroundings there.

You were thinking of a world depopulated of dreams, dark and gloomy.

Jeunet: It was the idea that we had. That someone who didn't dream but, just the same, lived very well, yet would want to see, in dreams, a greater dimension of the imagination. For us, someone who is deprived of that is condemned to die. That's part of what we wanted to say...If one cannot dream and imagine things, and if one is sentenced to the everyday, to reality, it's awful.

Can we find, in "The City of Lost Children," a parable on the desperation of modern man, who is progressively losing the ability to dream?

Caro : We never have "messages" of that sort, merely the desire to tell a simple story.

Jeunet: I think of men incapable of dreaming...There have always been men to put on fantasy festivals, or to make films, to make others dream; and there are others who have never dreamed.

Caro : Dreaming is also having the ability to preserve the spirit of childhood. It's true that it's a little metaphorical in the framework of the film, but there's no message.

What is your own definition of the world of dreams?

Caro : In every way, in this film, our vision of dreams is not at all realistic. We've read all the books about dreams, their significance, etc.; but, while it was thoroughly interesting, it wasn't necessary to take it into consideration for the story that we wanted to tell. One takes a greater risk in the realm of fairy tales than in dreams, in the proper sense. So we went in that direction, letting our imagination manifest itself.

Jeunet: The Freudian side of dreams is very interesting, but it's not at all our subject. That would have made for a tedious film, more of a mediocre parable...

Did you divide up your tasks in the same manner as on "Delicatessen"?

Jeunet: Even more so, since there was so much work to do that we were a little more separated. Marc focused on the artistic side; me, the actors.

...For some people, the film seems to be meant for children as well as adults...

Caro : Absolutely, but, as always, at the outset, the film was made first of all for ourselves. It's true that we've stayed very childlike...

The paradox is that the film, at moments, seems a little too dark for children...

Caro : But if you look at "Pinocchio," "Dumbo," "Snow White," "Bambi," there are some awful enough scenes that make an impression...I think that an audience member, whether big or little, wants to feel afraid, to have fun, to be moved, to cry -- in short, to be surprised. There has to be a little of all those emotions...

Jeunet: The idea is to rediscover, a little, childhood fears -- those in tales that were told to us. This is far from being gory. Yet, in the tales, when you read Grimm or Perrault, there's a certain cruelty.

What was the major difficulty working on the film?

Jeunet: Being saddled with all conceivable problems: tricky effects, children...Everything that you would normally say not to have: an American actor, five months of filming, very complicated special effects --

Caro : We had everything! Now, we can move on to intimate, normal films. [Laughs.] In spite of our previous experience, we never imagined the task ahead of us. We had to have known, at least unconsciously: we knew that this wasn't going to be easy...

The film carries elements of science fiction (notably, The Cyclops), which could signify that it takes place in the near future. But, on the other hand, it could be a "future" prior, which is to say, a future which never took place? Are you claiming a kinship with Fellini's universe?

Caro : Yes, it's a retro future, a former future. The aesthetic of the film is very Jules Verne, with The Nautilus, also Frankenstein's laboratory, with the bolts, etc.

"Delicatessen" represented, for some, a commercial risk; do you think that you're taking the same risk with "The City of Lost Children"?

Jeunet: It's riskier in that this film is more expensive, but it's already been sold abroad, which is a good thing: it's satisfying to know that it will be seen everywhere. Sure, this film is atypical, but it's always a risk to do a film in France.

Caro : At the same time, I think that this works better, to do something a little different and original that invites attention.

Why was there so much secrecy during filming?

Jeunet: When working on a film of such scope, answering journalists' questions is impossible. There are already so many more pressing questions: where am I going to put the camera, what do I say to the actor, how it's going to be done, etc. And there are a million of these questions daily! [Laughs.] Also, we didn't want to spoil the surprises, so as not to wear the public out.

Did you want to give to this film a more "international" dimension than "Delicatesen," even though that film did well in foreign markets?

Jeunet: That didn't occur to us, as such. With "Delicatessen," we made the film we would have wanted to see, and, fortunately, through the visual aspects, it was enjoyed everywhere. If we wanted to make "The City of Lost Children" more international, we would have started by filming it in English. Sure, there's an American actor, Ron Perlman, but that's because we couldn't find someone like that, neither in France nor in Europe, who could portray the character. Marc thought of Ron, whom he had seen in a Mexican film, "Cronos." The composer, Angelo Badalamenti, is American as well. We wanted to work with him, and we didn't see anyone comparable, at his level of lyricism. Marianne Faithfull sings at the end of the film, but this came about because Badalamenti had done an album with her. Visual cinema is international: with "Delicatessen," foreign viewers everywhere laughed in the same spots, wherever their countries were.

In this film, we meet again some of the actors from your previous film. Dominique Pinon, of course, but also Jean-Claude Dreyfus, Ticky Holgado, and Rufus: is there a "familial" aspect that you seek to maintain?

Caro : Yes, but at the same time, we're not giving away presents; there had to be roles for them. There are many actors from "Delicatessen" who we love, but who we didn't bring back, because there weren't parts for them...We found Mireille Mosse [Miss Bismuth], the two actresses who play The Octopus, Serge Merlin as the Cyclops Leader -- all are "new" to the family, and it's our hope to, on each film, discover some others...

Jeunet: And then, we can look everywhere, not only in France. But it's equally true that, with Dominique Pinon, I have the feeling that there will always be a part for him...He corresponds well to our universe...

Did you consider someone other than Daniel Emilfork for the role of Krank?

Jeunet: No, for 14 years, it was going to be him. The role was written for him. He was very flattered. We'd seen him on-stage.

It's a hateful character, for whom one feels hardly any sympathy...even though he's rather pleasant with One's brother Denree, whose aplomb pleases him...

Jeunet: I think that he is especially pathetic when he goes to see Irvin to ask him, since Irvin has feelings, for help...To not have an imagination means he doesn't even have feelings.

Caro : What's so bizarre about this character is that he's completely inhuman, seeing as he's a "creature," and his behavior is pathetic -- but at the same time he's made very human: how he gets sick, and all that...He's a large, wicked movie character, yet he has a humanity, a frailty...

How did the direction go, regarding Krank?

Jeunet: We could talk about that for four nights! [Laughs.]...What I could tell you would be nothing next to what you would have learned from being there with him!

Caro : It was a life experience! He's someone absolutely unique, extraordinary. In truth, he is Krank, in some part...He's a major professional, totally passionate about what he does. We were fortunate to have with us people full of enthusiasm, which he is, which Claudie Ossard is, which the special effects people were, and Jean-Paul Gaultier, and the lowest technician...

Jeunet: This film gave each technician, each artist, the opportunity to express oneself a little more than with films on contemporary subjects.

How did you find little Judith Vittet, who plays the astonishing Miette?

Jeunet: She had previously done a little advertising work, and she was in "Nobody Loves Me." We did tests with her, and she had shown a toughness out of the ordinary, and perfect professionalism: she had the right tone, she understands everything, she was totally amazing. For the moment, she doesn't want to be an actress, but an architect or an archaeologist.

Caro : But at the same time, she adores this! She says, already, that she wants to choose her roles, that she doesn't want to do just anything. She is completely incredible, but doesn't have a big head at all. She is exceptional...I hope that she will have other beautiful adventures like this...

Luc Besson's "The Professional" shows the love of a brute (Jean Reno) and an adolescent (Natalie Portman). Here, could one say as well that there is a love story between One and Miette, especially as evoked in the dialogue?

Jeunet: This could also be a love story. She is in search of that, but she is only 9 years old. But any comparison to the Besson film is purely by chance...

In practice, her coquettishnes -- the fact that she softens -- is in the classic tradition, except that here it comes from a pre-adolescent...

Jeunet: The whole scene on the staircase with the shoe is overloaded with sexual connotations, but it's unconscious on the part of the little girl...and with us, too: it was while editing that we realized it!

How was it directing very young children?

Jeunet: I tried all the boys' dialogue with each one of them, because one would say one line well but wouldn't know how to say another. I worked out the roles according to this method. I also modified dialogues based on what sounded best coming out of their mouths...There were many takes, sometimes tiresome: they would become dissipated, and, with a girl in their midst, it was even worse!...But, when "Action!" was called, they would get fully into it. When "Cut!" was called, it was over, they would lose concentration. They could go from concentration to de-concentration instantaneously, it was unbelievable. With the little girl, there were many repetitions, improvisations on themes such as gloominess, anger, etc. All that work truly paid off....You have to understand that a three-year-old toddler doesn't perform, he just is. So, he's absolutely right-on, and he will never hit a false note. In the editing, we inserted facial expressions at propitious moments...

Wasn't it a challenge shooting Dominique Pinon "cloned" -- for the actor, and for the shot?

Jeunet: It was very complicated to do, but it went well, without problems. We rehearsed the most difficult portions at Pitof/Duboi over two days, to get Dominique Pinon used to the system, and us too. Later, during filming, it was essential having an actor like Pinon, who is extremely technical, to arrive at the desired result. It's more tedious than complicated, truthfully. Pinon had to simultaneously play The Clones, incorporate the subtle differences between each Clone, all the while adhering to the preset synchronized sound-timing, hitting his mark opposite stand-ins. Sometimes there was only 1 centimeter to manuever in...

As in "Delicatessen," the universe in which your characters struggle is a somber one...

Caro :...I don't see it as an afternoon in the country, no. I do think that there must be consistency in the story that is being told. Fairy tales, on the whole, take place in the forest, the characters are a little bit lost, there arelights far away, etc. We adapted that so that there are lights in the port with the lighthouse far away, and there's the rig that's a little like a "castle" for the evil sorcerer. It's modernized, with all our couldn't have it by the sea at Club Med!...There has to be a balance between the subject, the look of the film, the characters, and the overall cohering story.

Was Jean-Louis Trintignant easily convinced to lend his voice to Irvin, the living brain?

Jeunet: I think that it was his daughter, Marie Trintignant, who, at the outset, talked to him about us. We had contacted him for "Delicatessen," but apparently there had been a road block from his agent...Marie spoke well of us to her father, he came to see some images at our editing table, and he was quite impressed...

Caro : He's one of those rare French actors who's also a beloved movie star...We especially wanted him for the tone of his voice...To bring to life a brain in a glass bowl, we needed an amazing voice, one a little like HAL's in "2001."

Did you work closely with Angelo Badalamenti, or did you leave him to do whatever he wanted?

It seems that the film has two parts: the first, where we find out about the characters; the second, which begins with the "connection" between One and Miette. Was this intentional?

Jeunet: Yes, I think this could be perceived as a shortcoming. But I liked the approach of starting with the dream, seeing the rig, forgetting about it right away by going to the school, which we leave as well to get interested in One, etc. To do it that way, like pieces of a puzzle, and, little by little, the pieces begin to come together. Me, I'm very happy with it, but I realize that it's perhaps not an easy, direct entry into the subject...

Caro : We were also reproached that "Delicatessen" gets underway too late. It was said to us that the "Delicatessen" story only really begins when Dominique Pinon invites the young woman over for tea, which is about 20 minutes in. So, that will probably be seen as a similarity with "The City of Lost Children."

In "Delicatessen," there was, in one memorable sequence, this very funny series of incidents resulting in a final gag. In "The City of Lost Children," the process begins with the teardrop, which arrives to, ultimately, save Miette's life. Is this kind of sequence something you enjoy doing, and is it particularly difficult to conceive and execute?

Jeunet: I have something of a gift for writing this kind of thing, and it's a real pleasure to dream up, say, that little mouse with the magnet, or the dog pulling the pulley, but it's in the staging that it's complicated. But with the teardrop, this goes much further, because it's a ludicrous illustration of The Chaos Theory, where one incident leads into another...It's amusing to know that someone's teardrop, a symbol of her sorrow, depicted by a simple drop of water, saves her life by becoming, at the end, a cargo boat 400 meters high that breaks up a bridge of boats! But between writing it on paper and directing's not the same thing! [Laughs.] It was quite a challenge for the special-effects men directly responsible for doing it.

This film proves that French special effects are now on a par, in terms of quality and efficiency, with American special effects...

Jeunet: This especially proves that what counts is not the machines, but the men. What's gratifying is having very capable Pitof, like Buf Compagnie. It's true that everything numeric now permits a significant leap forward, even on the level of sound...

Caro : There were four teams of sound technicians participating in the making of this film, a workload pretty rare in France. But there are men qualified for the jobs...

Are you totally satisfied with the film?

Jeunet: You step back a little and accept that your film will be full of flaws, and that these flaws become part of the film. There is no perfect movie, ever -- it doesn't exist. If a film is successful, it's due to a mixture of qualities and flaws...At the same time, it's a great source of frustration that there's never perfection.

Caro : You try to reach it, like a tennis player trying to win each point. And then you don't reach them all, but at the finish, you've won the match just the same. Or maybe it's not won, but you've given your all. But, these days, people only see the lost points.

You've done animation, short films, and music videos...Which one, if any, do you consider to be the best training ground for feature filmmaking?

Caro : It takes meticulousness and precision, but there are a thousand different ways of making films. There are filmmakers who are completely disorganized, but, in the end, come up with magnificent results. There's no one technique...Making "The City of Lost Children," we applied, on a grand scale, what we learned making short films...

Cinematically, what are your aspirations?

Caro : I feel I'd like to explore other narrative forms, ones in which there's a little media interactivity. What especially interests me is developing universes, and multimedia can enable me to explore a universe that I will construct...

Jeunet: I'd like to continue writing screenplays...something like "Forrest Gump," where the special effects aren't necessarily seen but can enable things to be done that couldn't have been, turn, reviving the writing, in proposing new things, thanks to the new techniques. Do you have a new project together? Jeunet: No, we're in the middle of discussing how we're each going to go in our own directions to do a little work, and perhaps one day get back together -- why not? Caro : Above all, we'll continue to do things we like, that interest us. What strengthens us is, between the films, we each acquired personal experiences...all of the kind that allow, from time to time, you to find yourself again and that each of us evolves, bringing a new dyanmic to our joint projects...After getting to a certain stage, with the project having materialized...since it was 14 years of carrying this film, you feel like trying other paths.
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